Interview with Syrian Grand Mufti
'Assad Could Step Down After Free Elections'
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,796363,00.html
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,796363-2,00.html
http://backupurl.com/mgsh9r
http://backupurl.com/4vohgi
11/08/2011
Grand Mufti Shaikh Hassoun, the highest Islamic authority in Syria and a close confidant of embattled President Bashar Assad, talked to SPIEGEL about the threat of civil war, possible suicide bombings in Europe and his son's murder at the hands of Islamist insurgents.
Info
For some he is a holy man, for others he is little more than a rabble-rouser. But no one can dispute that Grand Mufti Ahmad Badreddine Hassoun, 62, is one of the most important men in Syria, a man who, as the country's most senior religious scholar and a close political advisor to President Bashar Assad, plays a role in shaping war and peace in his country and in the entire Middle Eastern region.
Sheik Hassoun, a Sunni religious scholar at Al-Azhar University in Cairo and a member of parliament for eight years, has always found conciliatory words in the West. He sharply criticized the term "Holy War" in front of the European Parliament, saying: "Only peace is holy." At the Ecumenical Church Congress in Munich, he impressed fellow participants with his plea for interfaith dialogue and stunned German bishops with the proposal that the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) should remove the letter C from its name, for reasons of secularism.
Now, in October, Hassoun has adopted a decidedly different tone in his homeland. The following passage was leaked from the eulogy he gave for his son Saria, who had been killed by militant regime opponents: "The moment the first (NATO) missile hits Syria, all the sons and daughters of Lebanon and Syria will set out to become martyrdom-seekers in Europe and on Palestinian soil. I say to all of Europe and to the US: We will prepare martyrdom-seekers who are already among you, if you bomb Syria or Lebanon. From now on, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth."
SPIEGEL was able to accompany the grand mufti through Aleppo last week, a rare opportunity to get a close-up look at the dramatic changes in the country that, as former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger once said, is the key to peace in the Middle East.
State of Emergency
Syria is in a state of emergency. An uprising has been raging for the last eight months, in which at least 3,000 people have already died, according to UN estimates. But now Syria is also disintegrating into surreal juxtapositions. There have been bloody clashes in cities like Homs, Hama and Latakia, while Amnesty International is reporting cases of torture, even in hospitals, as well as kidnapping and tribal conflicts. The 4,000-year-old city of Aleppo, a crossroads on the legendary Silk Road, feels like a city that is nervously in limbo, sniffing the air to see what comes next: peace on parole.
In the winding alleys beneath the citadel, a UNESCO World Heritage site, tradesman and merchants are putting on a defiant show of normalcy, while at the same time exchanging the local currency for US dollars on the black market. An eerie silence prevails in the painstakingly restored Ottoman-era mansions that have been converted into boutique hotels.
Church bells ring almost simultaneously with the call of the muezzin. Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches are sprinkled here and there among the many mosques. In the markets, women in full veils jostle next to others in miniskirts and high heels. The armed struggle seems endlessly far away at first, but then its presence is suddenly very close, as sirens pierce the air and ambulances bring the dead and wounded from a bloody battle only 15 kilometers from the center of Aleppo.
No Sign of Any Calm
Are the denominations also being played off against one another in this heated atmosphere? Could the Sunni majority, 71 percent of the population, be about to take its revenge on the Alawite minority (12 percent), to which the presidential family of authoritarian rulers for the last 40 years belongs?
Last Wednesday, the government agreed to a peace plan proposed by the Arab League. But there is no sign of the situation becoming any calmer; bloody battles erupted once again after Friday prayers.
The grand mufti meets with us in the office of his apartment near the university. He is sitting in front of a large set of bookshelves, interrupted only by calligraphy that reads, in Arabic: "God teaches us everything, including the best way to use language." The talks with the grand mufti span two afternoons. They are periodically interrupted when, for example, the conversation turns to the death of his son and the mufti is overcome with sadness, or more rarely, when a visitor arrives, delivers a letter and, according to tradition, kisses the religious leader's hand. A friend of the mufti who everyone calls George -- not a Muslim, but an Armenian Christian -- acts as an interpreter.
SPIEGEL: Shaikh Hassoun, at least 3,000 people have died in Syria since March. Can civil war still be averted?
Hassoun: It is possible, but then all sides must truly desire peace. The government has just agreed to take the first step: It will withdraw the army and all tanks from city centers. One has to be aware of how it all began to understand how long the path to reconciliation still is. Some forces, especially abroad, have an interest in further escalation.
SPIEGEL: What do you mean?
Hassoun: In March, there was a completely justified, peaceful rally in Daraa against the governor of the region, who had thrown schoolchildren into prison. Daraa is a town near the Jordanian border known for smuggling. I went there right away and brought calm to the situation, and I promised the people an independent investigation. At my suggestion, the president removed the governor from office. But then imams who had come from abroad, especially Saudi Arabia, stirred things up with their inflammatory speeches. The news channels stationed in the Gulf states, Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya, helped them by falsely claiming that the clergy was on the side of the anti-Assad protesters.
SPIEGEL: Are you saying that the uprising against Assad was not triggered by regime repression but is being controlled from abroad?
Hassoun: Look at the second center of unrest, next to Daraa: Homs. That city is also very close to the border, in this case with Lebanon. Unpleasant elements -- Iraqis, Afghans, Saudis and Yemenis -- have also come from there, all with a radical, fundamentalist agenda. The provocateurs even attacked police chiefs and military officers in their homes.
SPIEGEL: It sounds like a conspiracy theory, with which you are trying to gloss over the failure of the Assad regime.
Hassoun: The government is not as you describe it. But it has made political and economic mistakes and did not liberalize quickly and comprehensively enough. The president is taking responsibility for that.
SPIEGEL: You say this to him in your private conversations?
Hassoun: It is well known that I generally support the president's policies. But when I feel the need to criticize and correct, I do so. Take, for example, the need to improve the living conditions of poorer classes and the treatment of dissidents. There is an old guard in our government circles. These people are impediments and must be isolated.
SPIEGEL: And the president listens to you? We have the impression that he is resistant to advice from others.
Hassoun: I don't think he clings to his position that much.
SPIEGEL: In your view, under what circumstances would Assad be willing to step down -- a condition that many insurgents have made and that is shared by US President Barack Obama and European politicians?
Hassoun: I am convinced that he will gradually introduce reforms, allow free and fair elections with independent parties, and then, after a peaceful transition, he might be willing to step down. He's no president for life. Bashar Assad, a former eye doctor, wants to return to his old profession. I can easily imagine it. In fact, he has told me several times about his dream of running an eye clinic.
SPIEGEL: At the moment, however, he has been very hesitant in agreeing to reforms. Under massive pressure from the Arab League, he agreed to end the violence within the next two weeks. Did Assad underestimate the scope of revolutionary change in the Middle East? Did you, too, fail to anticipate that the region's authoritarian rulers could be swept away?
Hassoun: Oh, the Arab League and the so-called Arab Spring. In my opinion, the League is deeply divided, into a wing that sees itself primarily in opposition to Israel, and another one that positions itself against supposed Iranian dominance. Since the League is so concerned about Syria, where is its outcry over Yemen and Bahrain, where the conditions are much worse? And what has really improved in Egypt? Should we welcome the rise of Islamist parties? I believe in the strict separation of church and state.
SPIEGEL: Not all Islamists are enemies of democracy. The winners of the election in Tunis have committed themselves to pluralism, and the Justice and Development Party (AKP) in Ankara largely practices this pluralism.
Hassoun: I was in Turkey nine months ago and met with almost all the top politicians. And I have to admit that I was very impressed.
SPIEGEL: Your northern neighbor has sided with Assad's opponents. Turkey is allowing the so-called Free Syrian Army to organize attacks against northern Syria from its territory. It is also harboring the Syrian National Council, the joint opposition group, which announced its formation in Istanbul a few months ago.
Hassoun: Yes, I was very surprised and outraged about that. This so-called national council doesn't even have a political program. I say to them: Show us something, negotiate with the Assad regime over a realistic timetable, and then let the people decide who has the more convincing ideas.
SPIEGEL: At least a portion of the Assad opponents now seem to favor a Libyan scenario, an armed struggle ...
Hassoun: ... which doesn't stand a chance. Assad isn't Gadhafi, and Syria isn't comparable with Libya. We are a great cultural nation, and bloody revolutions aren't our style. Besides, we have a functioning, tradition-conscious and loyal army.
SPIEGEL: That's what you say, but many soldiers have joined the resistance movement.
Hassoun: How many, 50 or 55? We're talking about an army of tens of thousands of men. But some of the radical Sunni imams from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf region are stirring people up, and unfortunately they are finding a few Sunni imams in my country who sympathize with them. For instance, they have pronounced a fatwa against me, because in their view I am betraying religion and am too moderate. But I'm not the only one on their hit list.
SPIEGEL: Who else?
Hassoun: They set their sights on my innocent son Saria, a 22-year-old student who was always friendly to everyone, who was studying International Relations and did not want to make religion his profession. So much for the kin liability you've criticized elsewhere! Oh, if only the four killers had killed me instead!
During the late afternoon, the grand mufti has other appointments: condolence visits with a Christian and a Muslim family. In the evening, he will have to comfort his wife once again, who is completely distraught over the death of Saria. He was the youngest of the couple's five sons, and the only one still living at home. Saria's fellow students are holding a vigil at his stone sarcophagus, even now, four weeks after the murder. The young man's last resting place can be found in the courtyard of a modest mosque. Shaikh Hassoun visits this sad place every day: a despairing father, an impassioned preacher, a man who with his words can set fires and can put out fires. He continues the interview the next day.
SPIEGEL: Why did you threaten to send suicide bombers to Europe and the United States in your speech at the gravesite?
Hassoun: I didn't threaten to send suicide bombers. I merely described a scenario in which it could easily emerge from the situation, and I warned against what could happen. Sentences were taken out of context and given a different coloring. Besides, the context to which my remark applied was a self-defense situation: a possible NATO attack on Syria ...
SPIEGEL: ... which former American presidential candidate John McCain as well as some of the members of the Syrian opposition operating abroad have already talked about.
Hassoun: If it comes to that, the world will explode. There will be an enormous bloodbath, and it will also affect you in the West. That's why Europe, in particular, should be more involved in the region. The Europeans would be better peace brokers than the Arab League.
SPIEGEL: Back to your eulogy ...
Hassoun: ... the character of which is being distorted by the sentences you cited. I wasn't interested in inciting people to go to war, but in reconciliation -- even with the murderers of my son Saria. "For those who killed him, I ask God that they not be forced to drink from the same cup as I do, this cup of suffering," I said. "I ask God to forgive you." And I called upon all parents whose sons carry weapons: "Make sure that they no longer use their guns."
SPIEGEL: But you also claimed that what the murderers were targeting was "not Saria, but Syria. They want Syria to bow down to Zionism and America." If you believe that the killers are Sunni extremists, why are you accusing Israel and the United States?
Hassoun: There are close ties between the Saudi royal family and the American White House. The Americans are often on the side of the oppressors. I am always on the side of the oppressed.
SPIEGEL: What does that mean for your role in Syria?
Hassoun: I see myself as the grand mufti of all 23 million Syrians, not just Muslims, but also Christians and even atheists. I am a man of dialogue. Who knows, maybe an agnostic will convince me with better arguments one day, and I'll become a non-believer. And if I'm enthusiastic about the opposition's political platform, I also might change sides.
SPIEGEL: What do you want your legacy as a religious scholar to be?
Hassoun: The bloodshed has to stop! If I could manage to bring about peace, I'd be happy to let my enemies kill me -- I'd be happy to give my life for that!
SPIEGEL: Shaikh Hassoun, we thank you for this interview.
Interview conducted by Erich Follath in Aleppo, Syria
خيمة وطن في قرية ظهر العرب بالحسكة دعما لمسيرة الإصلاح ورفضا للتدخلات الخارجية
Homeland Tent in Dahr al-Arab Village in Support of Reforms, Rejection of Foreign Intervention
http://www.sana.sy/ara/351/2011/11/08/380528.htm
http://www.sana.sy/eng/21/2011/11/08/380543.htm
Nov 08, 2011
HASAKA, SANA _ A homeland tent was set up in Dahr al-Arab village, in Hassaka Governorate, in support of the reform process and rejection of foreign intervention in Syria's internal affairs.
The tent was decorated by the national flags and folk dances were performed.
Participants chanted slogans that express the unity and cohesion of the Syrian people under the leadership of President Bashar al-Assad for facing the plot hatched against Syria.
Jassim al-Sulaiman said we meet today to express our rejection of outside interference in the Syrian free decision and to stress that the people of Syria are able to build a modern Syria through their support to the reform process which will positively reflect on the homeland and citizens as a whole.
Muhammad Riad al-Faraj said this activity is a token of love and loyalty to the Syrian Army, who restored stability and security to the areas sabotaged by the terrorists.
" تيار بناء الدولة السورية " يعد لمؤتمر وطني يضم قوى المعارضة وشخصيات مستقلة في دمشق
"Current of Syrian state-building" called on the national conference to include forces of opposition and independent figures in Damascus
http://www.aksalser.com/?page=view_articles&id=1366b4f74e6d7a673be0b11f40b6af39&ar=242023348
Tuesday - November 8 - 2011 - 15:30:39
Revealed at the International Movement for the Syrian intention to hold a national conference in Damascus, including the forces of opposition and independent figures, in preparation for the transition and his participation in the delegation of the Syrian opposition will meet the Secretary General of the League of Arab States Nabil el-Arabi.
»Turkey's henchmen in Syrian Kurdistan are responsible for the unrest here«
http://www.kurdwatch.org/html/en/interview6.html
(Interview conducted on Oct 20, 2011)
KURDWATCH, November 8, 2011—Salih Muslim Muhammad (b. 1951, chemical engineer, married, five children) has been chairman of the Democratic Union Party (PYD), the Syrian branch of the PKK, since 2010. Out of fear of political persecution, he fled to Iraq in 2010, where he stayed at a PYD camp in the Gare Mountains. After the dissident protests began, he returned to Syria along with other PYD members. The day after his arrival, he took part in a PYD rally in al-Qamishli. In a conversation with KURDWATCH, Salih Muslim Muhammad speaks out about the PYD's role within the Syrian revolution and about its activities in Syria.
KurdWatch: We would like to hold an interview with you for KurdWatch about the current situation in Syria. Do you have time for a conversation?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: First, I would like to make a remark about KurdWatch. One or two days ago, you published a news article in which it was implied that the PYD was responsible for certain deeds. We do not accept this. It is not your job to spread rumors. The PYD is a political organization. We reject politically motivated violence and the oppression of people; we condemn this. I want to make one thing clear: The PYD did not kidnap or threaten anyone. Show me one single person who says that they were kidnapped and threatened by the PYD. That is nothing but propaganda with the goal of discrediting the PYD and the Kurdish freedom movement. We reject this. There are forces that stand behind these accusations. The PYD, as a force with many supporters, is being discredited.
KurdWatch: Who do you mean by these »forces«?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: There are some people here who have connections to Turkey, especially to the Special War Department. These people were trained there and have now returned to Syria. Their task is to damage our reputation. In the last ten years, the Turkish government has taken several steps in this direction.
KurdWatch: In 'Ayn al-'Arab (Kobanî) and Ra's al-'Ayn (Serê Kaniyê) Kurdish activists were kidnapped and severely tortured. In both cases, the PYD is being blamed.
Salih Muslim Muhammad: There are problems in Kurdish society, as there are problems in all societies. There are immoral incidents, for example drug use. There are people who sell drugs. The state and outside powers are behind this. They want to break society apart. There are people who do not accept this. We are not those people. In several Kurdish cities there are brothels. Here, too, there are people who are against this. It is not the PYD, but society that does not accept this. Thus it is clear that there will be corresponding reactions. There will be an attempt to classify these reactions politically. But politics is not behind this.
KurdWatch: The Kurdish Future Movement in Syria has repeatedly accused the PYD of threatening its activists. In an interview with the radio station Voice of America, for example, Harvin Usi, a leading member of the Future Movement, accuses the PYD's leading cadre in Damascus of threatening her life.
Salih Muslim Muhammad: That is not true. No one from the PYD has threatened anyone. Present us with facts. We are a people's organization. Anyone can come to us and criticize us. We don't have any problems with that.
KurdWatch: After the first attempt on his life, the speaker of the Future Movement, Mish'al at-Tammu, indirectly blamed the PYD for this act. More than a few Kurds in Syria are of the opinion that the PYD was behind his assassination. What do you say to this?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: Mish'al at-Tammu was a Kurd, a part of the Syrian opposition. As a Kurd, he was one of us. We perceive his assassination as the assassination of one of us. Even if we had political differences, we were part of a united front against the Syrian state. It is out of the question that we are behind his assassination. The murderers wanted others to be blamed for their actions. There is nothing worse than killing a person and then accusing his family.
KurdWatch: Do you have enemies among the Syrian Kurds?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: We have no enemies inside Kurdish society. We have political friends, and there are others with whom we have political differences. We don't expect that everyone will think as we do. Just because a person has other political ideas, that does not make him our enemy. The enemies of the Kurdish people are our enemies - we do not have other enemies.
KurdWatch: In the 1080s and 90s, the PKK killed many of its Kurdish critics in Syria, many others lost body parts, and others were threatened and beaten. Should we be afraid that the PYD is planning similar acts in the future?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: If the PKK punished people, it had its reasons. We know this much from that period. Either the people in question were traitors or they had caused harm to the PKK. There were PKK courts that determined the punishments. Or people were punished because that's what the people wanted. The PYD is a political organization. If someone betrays us, he will be punished. But we do not use murder or violence. The PKK has military units that follow their own laws, as it is the case with the military all over the world. They do not act like political organizations.
KurdWatch: Critics of the PYD accuse you of not pursuing a Syrian project. You are accused of acting solely in the interests of the PKK.
Salih Muslim Muhammad: We have opened language schools and cultural centers in Syria, not in Turkey. There is a reason that we apply Apo's [Abdullah Öcalan's] philosophy and ideology to Syria: It offers the best solution to the Kurdish problems in Syrian Kurdistan. But we do not take orders from anywhere.
KurdWatch: How does the PYD envision the future of Kurds in Syria?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: We have put forth a project: »democratic autonomy«. By this we do not mean autonomy that needs to be clear. We have explained everything, outlined the practical steps, and we have already begun to implement this project. We, as the Kurdish Freedom Movement reject the classical understanding of power. We reject classical models like federalism, con-federalism, self-government, and autonomy. Our goal is the formation of a new Kurdish society, the formation of a free person, a person with free will and free thought. We find the solution in democratic autonomy. It is a matter of creating a new society, and the question is not whether a county commissioner, a district mayor, or a governor is one of us. The point is to renew society from the bottom up. It is about culture, institutions, structure, organization, towns and cities. We are not concerned with autonomy. Autonomy does not move us Kurds forward.
KurdWatch: What about the demand for the constitutional recognition of the Kurds as a second ethnicity in Syria?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: That is also one of our demands. We imposed this demand upon the National Union for the Forces of Democratic Change.
KurdWatch: In some Kurdish cities, the PYD has opened Kurdish cultural centers and language schools. What are your aims with this?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: Those are concrete steps of democratic autonomy. We establish associations, hold conferences, and open language schools, women's centers, and cultural centers. We want the people to know what we want and to support our project. The people do not yet believe that they need organizations like language schools and cultural centers. In Syria we currently have the best opportunity to open such schools and centers, even if they are rather symbolic.
KurdWatch: Did you receive authorization from the Syrian state to open these schools and centers?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: We don't need any authorization from anyone for the things we do for our people. There is no legal basis for these projects.
KurdWatch: The PYD could have started earlier with such projects without authorization. Why now? What has changed?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: We fought then, too. Many of our members were imprisoned. But now we have established that since the beginning of the unrest, the regime has had no possibility to attack us. If it does attack us, it will see what happens. We are profiting from the unrest. It is a historical chance for us. We have a right and are making use of it. We do not kill anyone and we also do not fight against anyone. We are preparing our people and ourselves for the period after the fall of the regime.
KurdWatch: There is information that armed PYD members in the 'Afrin region, in 'Ayn al-'Arab (Kobanî), and in al-Malikiyah (Dêrik) have been equipped by the Syrian state with special powers. There is talk of PYD camps.
Salih Muslim Muhammad: That isn't true. In Iraq, in the Gare Mountains we have a base. I was there myself. Our members were and still are trained there. Many of them have returned to Syria. But we do not have a camp here. We also do not have weapons here. If it were necessary, we could get weapons. We could protect our people. We are not reaching for power. We have groups everywhere, in cities and also in the towns. We teach our people how to protect themselves. The point is not to bring people in from the outside in order to protect the people - our people should be able to protect themselves.
KurdWatch: In recent years, many PYD members and sympathizers were arrested and sentenced to years in prison. You yourself also fled to Iraq out of fear of arrest. Like many other PYD members, you returned to Syria after the protests began. You move freely, organize demonstrations, open language schools and cultural centers, and the state does not prevent you from doing this. Is there an agreement between the PYD and the Syrian regime?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: When I came to Syria, I was accompanied by my party's armed cadres. I came to lead my party in the current fight. The state knows that if PYD leaders are arrested, there will be serious protests everywhere. This is not in the state's interest.
KurdWatch: There are many voices in Syria demanding the fall of President Bashar al-Assad and his regime. What are your demands?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: We demand a fundamental change to the oppressive system. There are some who hold up the slogan: the fall of the regime. In contrast we demand the fall of the oppressive authoritarian system. Our problems are not problems of powers. The ruling powers in Damascus come and go. For us Kurds, this isn't so important. What is important is that we Kurds assert our existence. The current regime does not accept us, nor do those who will potentially come into power. Our politics differ from a politics that seeks power. That needs to be clear.
KurdWatch: Can you imagine working with the Muslim Brotherhood?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: No. The Muslim Brotherhood does not acknowledge the existence of the Kurds. They have signed an agreement with Turkey that they will deny the existence of the Kurds if they come to power in Syria.
KurdWatch: The Muslim Brotherhood recognizes that there are Kurds in Syria and that along with cultural rights they have the right to receive full rights of citizenship.
Salih Muslim Muhammad: You must mean the right to assimilate. It will then be written in the identity card that a Kurd is a Syrian Arab. The Kurdish language will remain banned. Full rights of citizenship are no longer enough for the Kurds. We demand constitutional recognition of the Kurds.
KurdWatch: A few weeks ago Duran Kalkan, a member of the leadership council of the Kurdistan Union of Societies (KCK) said that the PKK in Syria is in a fight against the AKP. Cemil Bayik, another member of the KCK leadership council, allegedly said that the PKK will wage a war against Turkey if Turkey gets involved in Syria's internal affairs. What does the PYD think of this?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: Yes, this is our position as well. We have the same philosophy and ideology. What is meant, however, is political war. If Turkey positions itself against the existence of the Kurds, then we will not be silent about it. In the last ten years, in which Turkey has maintained good relations with the Syrian state, it has also installed many henchmen among the Kurds. Turkey's henchmen in Syrian Kurdistan are responsible for the unrest here. Turkey is afraid that the Kurds in Syrian Kurdistan will receive their rights.
KurdWatch: Who are Turkey's Kurdish henchmen?
Salih Muslim Muhammad: All those who are currently sitting on the Syrian National Council and who have signed the agreement with Turkey. We do not believe that they know what is happening around them. We consider anyone who does not publicly take a stand against the Turkish position to be one of Turkey's henchmen.
KurdWatch: Representatives of the Kurdish Union Party in Syria (Yekîtî) and the Kurdish Freedom Party in Syria (Azadî) sit on the Syrian National Council. Just like the PYD, both parties are also members of the Kurdish Patriotic Movement in Syria.
Salih Muslim Muhammad: Yes, we know that. We have expressed our displeasure to them. We also demand a clear stance from them. Perhaps they are unaware of what is written in the Syrian National Council's agreement with Turkey.
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